|
|
Post by str4ngerd4nger on Apr 22, 2009 22:05:41 GMT -5
go Jesus!
|
|
|
|
Post by heavy0metal0queen on Apr 22, 2009 22:21:39 GMT -5
screw it. I'll do my best now.
So, here we have Church and State. And for the most part, it does a good job. Then, along comes an issue like gay marriage, and everything goes to hell.
See, the Church claims that marriage is something sacred, between a man and a woman. That marriage belongs to the Church.
But isn't that that overstepping the boundaries into the territory of the State? Marriage is also a LEGAL institution, determining everything, from how you file your taxes to the quality of insurance you can get.
And now there are still laws against gay marriage, all because the the line between Church and State is not clearly laid down.
What I'm saying is, the separation of Church and State is useless when they can't decide who has the right to set the rules for an issue.
|
|
|
|
Post by Darknezz on Apr 22, 2009 22:53:57 GMT -5
Which is when the Supreme Court is supposed to step in and say, "Hey! That's unconstitutional!"
Unfortunately, getting a case like California's Pro 8 to the Supreme Court takes forever.
|
|
|
|
Post by shilohdegreat on Apr 23, 2009 0:29:13 GMT -5
screw it. I'll do my best now. So, here we have Church and State. And for the most part, it does a good job. Then, along comes an issue like gay marriage, and everything goes to hell. See, the Church claims that marriage is something sacred, between a man and a woman. That marriage belongs to the Church. But isn't that that overstepping the boundaries into the territory of the State? Marriage is also a LEGAL institution, determining everything, from how you file your taxes to the quality of insurance you can get. And now there are still laws against gay marriage, all because the the line between Church and State is not clearly laid down. What I'm saying is, the separation of Church and State is useless when they can't decide who has the right to set the rules for an issue. Marriage is really the only thing in which the State and religion go hand-in-hand. Priests usually handle the paperwork involved in making the marriage official, which the State happily accepts. If priests didn't do that, States would need a whole lot more Justices of Peace to handle that paperwork. Everything else religious is kept away from legal procedures, or they at least have options available for all religions. Also, the line between Church and State is laid down clearly in the law, it just isn't laid down clearly in the mentality of those in political office. They hold religious value over material. So their religious and Traditional values supersede more secular ones. At least they're getting a little bit better. I'm glad Deists founded the country. Hey, it's democracy, what are you going to do? It's better than an absolute monarchy. |
|
|
|
Post by Darknezz on Apr 23, 2009 0:31:41 GMT -5
Okay, no more about marriage. I have a same-sex marriage topic, go find it.
|
|
digitalis
Junior Member
Sending Love to you All XoXoXoXoX
Posts: 54
|
Post by digitalis on Apr 23, 2009 3:55:44 GMT -5
When I was young I always wondered why there is no tangible thing that I could feel or touch, god for me just didn't exsist. I'm not saying that god doesn't exsist for other people, just not for me so I really don't know what god is and that's why later in life I became a buddhist.
To answer your other question, I really don't believe in pushing others to practice your religion. I'm talking from experience, back where I used to live I was hounded by another religious group. So many times I had told them I was Buddhist, if I was walking down the street they would stop me and start talking the "blurb" and then I would be as nice as possible in telling them I was Buddhist, after I always got the "this girls going to hell" look and how I must be saved. I ended up moving because they had started to come around to my house, so my feelings are very clear. There is no reason why you should worship god/or being, you do what is right for you.
|
|
|
|
Post by heavy0metal0queen on Apr 23, 2009 12:58:24 GMT -5
Nicely put, Digitalis, that was pretty much the point I was trying to make in my first p.
And Dark, I wasn't trying to turn the thread in the direction of gay marriage, I was just using it as an example to explain the second post i made. Was I at all successful?
|
|
|
|
Post by shortbus on Apr 23, 2009 19:41:30 GMT -5
Some people, (athiests, nihilists, etc.) have the ability to look at life and death, recognize that there is an actual end to themselves I can recognize that, and I am afraid of it. It is the only good reason I can think of for wanting a god to exist, so that I can keep existing. |
|
|
|
Post by heavy0metal0queen on Apr 24, 2009 11:29:14 GMT -5
Yeah, but then, that's why I've converted to the Baha'i.
It's not so much about giving stuff up to get into heaven, It's about taking every opportunity that comes your way, and doing things with your life now.
I don't know if there really is a god. Even if it turns out there is no heaven, and I'll just be worm food, I figure that by living my life this way, at least maybe I won't have so many regrets on my deathbed about not having done anything with my life. Because heaven, for me, is here and now.
|
|
|
|
Post by Wednesday_R on Apr 25, 2009 11:15:21 GMT -5
Yeah, but then, that's why I've converted to the Baha'i. It's not so much about giving stuff up to get into heaven, It's about taking every opportunity that comes your way, and doing things with your life now. I don't know if there really is a god. Even if it turns out there is no heaven, and I'll just be worm food, I figure that by living my life this way, at least maybe I won't have so many regrets on my deathbed about not having done anything with my life. Because heaven, for me, is here and now. Perfectly stated. ;D |
|
|
|
Post by barbedwirebat on Apr 26, 2009 20:46:39 GMT -5
I'm more than certain this has already been said, as this is the debate sub-forum, filled with intellectuals of all sorts, but i'll proceed to enlighten you on my opinion of "God".
My opinion of "God", is that, simply stated, one can not know if there is, or isn't a god. One also does not know the correct religion or if their religion is the one, true, virtuous religion. That being said, anyone who says without falter that they know that there is a god for certain, or that there isn't a god for certain, has placed their own beliefs beyond factual evidence.
Such as how a creationist might believe that the world was created in 5000 years, however, carbon dating and deoxy-ribonucleic acid swiftly disproves this theory.
Or, how an atheist believes there is no god, as they have the above evidence of carbon dating and evolution and the like, yet none can explain how the universe came about itself.
There are many mysteries that shroud religion and the history of this infinitely huge universe, and only time will tell us what is true, and what isn't.
But for now, i believe to not believe in any religion. For one, more than any other reason, religion has caused wars. I don't think any religion, atheism included, should be worshiped. Because nobody truly knows.
And until the fact is accepted that noone knows, people of various religions will continue to bicker amongst themselves, wars will continue to be fought, and lives will be sacrificed (I.E: suicide bombers) for the "greater good".
A great film that i believe everyone should watch is "Religulous" by Bill Maher. It's a great piece ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by Darknezz on Apr 26, 2009 21:00:57 GMT -5
My opinion of "God", is that, simply stated, one can not know if there is, or isn't a god. One also does not know the correct religion or if their religion is the one, true, virtuous religion. That being said, anyone who says without falter that they know that there is a god for certain, or that there isn't a god for certain, has placed their own beliefs beyond factual evidence. I'll say this once; A lack of evidence to support a claim that goes against logic, such as the existence of God, is evidence that the claim is probably wrong. It's not a theory, but sure, let's go with that. Atheism is not, and I have said this before, not the belief that there is no God. It is the lack of belief in a God. Of course, there are some who classify as strong atheism and weak atheism, and the same for theism. I am an atheist regarding all Gods. Christians are atheist regarding every God other than the Christian God. Saying that since we can't explain how the universe came about does not give any credence to a God, nor does it make one any more likely. We didn't know about germs until the 1800s, but that doesn't mean they didn't exist until then, it didn't mean it gave "God did it" any more merit. This is an evasion, and not debatable. Atheism is not a religion.If you do not believe in any God, you are an atheist, sir. Agnosticism included, you're an atheist. Gnosticism and Agnosticism are claims of knowledge; You claim to know there is a God or not. Theism and Atheism are claims of belief; You either believe or not. The two sets are not mutually exclusive. |
|
|
|
Post by barbedwirebat on Apr 26, 2009 23:16:12 GMT -5
Atheism is not a religion. I apologize for hurting your sensitivities by calling it a religion, but what the hell do you want me to call it? there is no such thing as an atheistic Christian, nor an atheistic Buddhist, nor an atheistic Muslim, who have lack of belief in their god, but follow the religion. No, that's an atheist living an ideally good life. I'm not getting into the subsections of nonsensical rubbish that everyone knows; like how "Christians believe in no other god but their own, making them atheistic towards those gods". I'm talking about people like yourself, who "have a lack of belief towards all gods" If you do not believe in any God, you are an atheist, sir. Agnosticism included, you're an atheist. I never make any claim that i don't believe in God. Nor do i make any claim that i believe in God. I make the claim that I don't know, and what's more, don't care about believing or lack thereof. If anything, i would consider myself an apatheist. Though, because apatheists don't care about the religions of other people, i am not. |
|
|
|
Post by Darknezz on Apr 26, 2009 23:49:04 GMT -5
That wasn't my point and you know it. I was only giving example of the difference between atheism being a lack of believe a belief that God does not exist.
I'd like you to call atheism a lack of belief. You didn't upset me because I'm sensitive about it, I'm upset because so very many people make that mistake that it makes me think they're ignorant.
Again, like I said, it was just an example.
You said:
Which gave me the impression that you were trying to say you were agnostic. Forgive me for reading into it.
There are agnostic and gnostic atheists, just as there are theists. Again, it's a claim of knowledge. Agnostic atheists are people who do not claim to know if there is a God or not, but do not believe. Gnostic atheists claim to know that there is no God. Agnostic theists believe, but do not claim to know. Gnostic theists claim to know that there is a God.
Again, my mistake for inferring that you actually had a belief. If you don't believe one way or another, you really shouldn't be in this topic trying to debate for or against, and if you're not for or against, you're basically just posting for the sake of posting.
Atheism is not like religion. It has no dogma, no scripture, no set of beliefs, no dictations about how you should live your life, atheism is just a label for nonbelievers. It is in no way like a religion at all, and I am quite frankly offended that you would say it is. Not that it really matters if I'm offended by your ignorance, though.
Again, you're posting for the sake of posting. Stop that.
If you'd like to continue this discussion, since it no longer has to do with what a God is and why we should worship it, please do so in a PM.
|
|
669
Junior Member
Y HALO THAR
Posts: 156
|
Post by 669 on Apr 28, 2009 10:26:58 GMT -5
I have to say that Darknezz has made quite a number of valid points in this discussion
+ Karma for you ^^
|
|
