Of Men and Rape

[skyliner12]

EDIT: If you're going to respond to this thread, please make it more than a one sentence response. If you want to join in the discussion, say something more than "too long didn't want to read lol". Make posts like this and they are subject to deletion. Thank you.

Yeah, I'm going there. I recently had an interesting discussion with a fellow female chatter about this (especially in all of my post-wedding debacle business), and then a quick word with a different user complaining about how the debate forums are always inactive and whatnot.

So one of my friends from LiveJournal posted an entry about this a couple weeks ago, and I've still not finished combing through all the comments. Entry is here but I'm going to go ahead and cut and paste her entry to make things simpler.

" There is a point in discussions of rape, when the discussion turns from the particular to the systemic, when the idea that, for example, many cultures have a value system that makes men believe they are fundamentally entitled to women's bodies (or time or attention, but mostly bodies), when the exceptionism starts to come out. Say it with me, now: not all men are like that.

And of course, they're not. But you know what? Too damn many of you are, and too damn many of you can be in the right circumstances. And I'm not going to apologize for saying that.

And if that offends you, I would suggest you take it up with the women in Congo. Or the girls in the poorest parts of the rural south. Or the girl passed out at a frat house party. Or the women anywhere that the thin veneer of civilization is disrupted for even the briefest of times.

And I am sure that you, Guy Who Is Reading This, is That Guy. You're the guy who would never rape a girl passed out on your bed (who, for that matter, knows that such an act would be rape), or the woman in the village your battalion/troop/whatever is overrunning. You're the guy who wouldn't do such a thing even when his buddies were heckling him, telling him he's a fag and a pussy if he doesn't. Even more, you're the guy who would stop his frat brother from raping that girl, and get her home. You're the guy who would stop his comrades, or at least report them.

And to lose the sarcasm for a minute, I'm sure some of you are. Lord knows, I believe that of most of the men I am close to. Or at least, I desperately want to.

Now, here's my question: where the fuck are you?

Why aren't there more stories of "the guy who got me home when I was seriously drunk and my boyfriend wasn't looking out for me"? And even if the women are too embarrassed to tell them, don't tell me that if this were a common occurrence, that we wouldn't hear a dozen of them every time a Haidl, Nachreiner and Spann appeared in the news?

And yes, you probably have stories of a time when your girlfriend/friend/girl who was at your apartment was drunk and you didn't rape her. And you don't tell them because you don't think that's even a story. And it shouldn't be, but let me tell you: you should start telling them, because those 18-year-old boys who don't think they're bad guys sure aren't listening to us. Maybe they'll listen to you.

Because men raping women is systemic, and cultural, and yes it is the patriarchy and it is misogyny and it is men thinking they are entitled to women's bodies. "Well, what did she expect, getting drunk like that?" isn't salt in the wound, it is the foundation of the problem. The idea that if a woman is not actively preventing a man from sticking his penis into her (and even then, if she's an enemy), he is doing nothing wrong, and hey, who can blame him, IS THE PROBLEM.

One of the hardest things I learned from the discussions of racism is not that I have absorbed racist attitudes from my culture, but that under the right circumstances, those attitudes can become action. And no, I don't want a cookie: that's not a good thing. But as squirmy as that realization makes me, I like to think I have learned that objecting when POC point this out is kind of not the best response.

So I say to men everywhere: if statements like the ones I made above piss you off, try taking it up with the men who make it so. Either be That Guy, or shut up. If you do nothing else, let us name the problem for what it is without insisting we acknowledge you. "

On that note, take a quick read at this article, where as near as I can tell, British women seem to have it ten times worse than American women do, which shocks me for some reason.

I feel that a lot of the time this stupid crap extends to the internet as well. Whenever a user mentions they are a girl in chat, or corrects another user and says "Sky is a girl", there always seems to be a quick wave of "lol wut girls on the internet". And yeah, it was a little funny for a while, because I was honestly suprised people were shocked I was a girl or I was on the internet or whatever. But now it's simply old (running along the meme veins of LOL OVER 9000) and stupidly mysoginestic. I would bet damn near all I have that if it was a situation of "Sky is black/Asian/insert-nationality/race-here" and it became "lol black/Asians on the internet", mods would be TO-ing so fast there'd probably be a ban appeal thread for that issue alone.

All I'm really asking is for all people who read this to be more aware about this kind of shit. Don't say something to a woman you wouldn't want say in front of your mother or grandmother. If you see/hear or even read online that a girl is getting harassed simply for being a girl and no other reason, don't sit by and do nothing. If you are a male teenager/adult, don't let your little brother and his friends grow up thinking this kind of action is something that is okay, because it simply is not. Draw the line and set a proper example please, ladies and gentlemen.

[Deleted]

This is one of the best things I've read on these forums. Especially right now, this is extremely important to me as I've just gotten out of highschool. So many girls I know go to parties and will go to more crazy parties in college and get so drunk that guys will take advantage of it. A lot of the guys that I've met that would never imagine taking advantage of a girl don't even go to parties so they can't be the ones to help the girls out. As a girl, though, I'd try my hardest to help a girl out when she can't help herself in that situation.

[Darknezz]

That's all well and good, but why is this in the debate forum?

It's not really a subject of debate that rape is wrong. Nor is it up to debate that everyone has rights, not just the rich white folks.

That aside, of course no one tells any stories about, "Oh this chick was over, drunk and passed out. I didn't rape her." First of all, that story is lame, no one cares, and quite frankly, it's never going to be relevant to conversation. A rapist won't be swayed by it, and people who don't rape people aren't going to rape people. I have a hard time imagining someone on the fence going, "Well, ya know, my friends said that they never raped anyone. But I could!"

This idea of setting a better example for people is silly. We set the best example possible, we educate kids in regard to the rights of every man, woman, and child, there's not a lot we can do. What, should we just bring them over to the news story and lecture them on how rape is bad every time it gets reported?

And for that matter, why is no one making redundant tirades like this on the topics of school shootings? On abortion? On any number of frankly more important issues? Because they don't work. The only reason for it is some emotional tie.

No one has any claim over another human. The rapists are the ones that need to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into this century. Unfortunately, that's unlikely to happen, especially when people are putting their efforts towards writing huge, pointless blocks of text like these, rather than actually doing something about it.

[shouhei]

A feel very strongly about this topic, not just because I'm a female, but because at least 5 of my friends have been raped. And most of them are still in high school.

Only one of the men who raped my friends was sober. The rest were drunk. I'm not going to say my friend's, name, but it was her boyfriend who forced himself upon her. People at my school are very ignorant about this topic.. ever since the news got out that she was raped, they've been calling her a skank, (This'll probably get censored lmao) and other various names that are degrading. I find myself as one of the only people by her side. I've known her since 6th grade, and I don't think, but I know that she is NOT a skank. I talked with her boyfriend after the rape (I didn't say anything about my friend, because I didn't want to seem biased) and he said that she "was asking for it" and that he "let her have what she wanted". Well. That's not true. Because she said NO. And what her boyfriend said after that haunts me to this day.. he said, "When girls say no, that means that they really want it. Not that they want you to stop." I was f**k**g DISGUSTED.

And I completely agree with you, Sky, when you said, "that under the right circumstances, those attitudes can become action." Sometimes people get lost in their emotions, and it can make them do completely horrible things-- things that they wouldn't do when they used their minds, and when they can think rationally. And sometimes people give into peer pressure- that their friends will do something to them if they don't make out with this girl, or do something to this girl. If one is ever faced with this situation, just get up and walk away. Some men (and women) treat certain situations like it's a game. Like nothing will happen to them.

And to put some humor in the topic, there are no respawn points, or restart options in real life.

I'll edit this topic later, when I feel like adding more. This topic just makes me so.. ANGRY. >_<

EDIT: Darknezz.. I understand what you're trying to say, but the way you worded your post just makes it seem like you're trying to get the wrong point across.

"First of all, that story is lame, no one cares, and quite frankly, it's never going to be relevant to conversation." No, it's not lame. It's far from it. That sentence that you just typed up is just.. ugh. I can't believe you said that. And "people who don't rape people won't rape people"? I beg to differ. RAPE HAPPENS. Emotions and peer pressure can get people to do what they wouldn't do before. :/

And I'm expecting a reply.


-Shou~

[britishbakura]

i will post in this topic because 2 of my friends were raped and i think most people are ignorant about this subject.

my best friend was raped by a 45 year old when she was only 16, she went to a pub and got drunk and well the rest is what it is, but when she told me i cried. she didn't tell anyone else because she was scared, the same applies to my other friend. the fact that men think that they can do this and get away with it is just sick. not only do they have to deal with STD's and a maybe pregancy but the psycological damage it does is just horrible. my friends are scarred for life and they will never be the same again. not one women (or girl, it's that bad) can walk the streets without being paroniod about a guy sneaking up on them and being perverted. it's just wrong. i have always taught my brothers that women should be treated equally and that they should be respected and they are growing up to be just that i'm glad to say.

but the "omg! no girls on the internet!!!" thing really pisses me off tbh i think it should be a rule just like any other kind of discrimination. making jokes about someone just because they are a girl is the same as making a joke about someone because they are black/asian etc, but people just don't seem to realise this and why? because we are girls.
i'm sick of being singled out because of my sex, it's not fair. in a weird way we are treated like animals, men don't think we have feelings and just use us for what they want.

I have only met a few proper nice guys in my life, they are rare to find but they do exsist.
Darknezz for example is a jerk and will do anything in his power to put anyone down....Dark it should be here because some people don't know how serious rape is and it can be debated. if people want to debate then people WILL debate, also, setting the best example we can? i don't think so. i disagree with you .....now it's a debate....gtfo.
thank you skyliner for posting this topic < 3

[ratfoot]

First of all Skyliner I would like to applaud you for bringing such a serious issue to the debate forum in such a concise and well thought out post. I will address each of the points you make from my viewpoint
There is a point in discussions of rape, when the discussion turns from the particular to the systemic, when the idea that, for example, many cultures have a value system that makes men believe they are fundamentally entitled to women's bodies (or time or attention, but mostly bodies), when the exceptionism starts to come out. Say it with me, now: not all men are like that.

While I do agree that some cultures have had that belief of entitlement to a woman's body for as long as they have existed it still does not make it right. Saying that all men aren't like that is also a very lazy excuse. The way that men are brought up today especially in our culture objectifies women as a thing of desire which men will do anything to get. I believe that objectification is the biggest underlying problem in our culture.

And I am sure that you, Guy Who Is Reading This, is That Guy. You're the guy who would never rape a girl passed out on your bed (who, for that matter, knows that such an act would be rape), or the woman in the village your battalion/troop/whatever is overrunning. You're the guy who wouldn't do such a thing even when his buddies were heckling him, telling him he's a fag and a pussy if he doesn't. Even more, you're the guy who would stop his frat brother from raping that girl, and get her home. You're the guy who would stop his comrades, or at least report them.

I see where you are coming from here but I believe that you are putting a little less faith in the common decency of humanity than you should. Yes fucked up things like rape do happen all the time but does that mean that almost any guy would just stand by and watch an innocent girl get raped? I highly doubt it. It definitely does take some will power to stand up to peer pressure and the notion that you should "protect" your buddies but I don't think most men have such a small conscience that they would just give in.

Now, here's my question: where the fuck are you?

Why aren't there more stories of "the guy who got me home when I was seriously drunk and my boyfriend wasn't looking out for me"? And even if the women are too embarrassed to tell them, don't tell me that if this were a common occurrence, that we wouldn't hear a dozen of them every time a Haidl, Nachreiner and Spann appeared in the news?


I think the problem with this is that most "nice" guys who would give a drunk girl a ride a home aren't going to the parties like most of these a**holes who rape women are. Now I would gladly give a girl who had one too many a ride home but I have never been put in that situation because I don't go to the wild parties where shit like that happens. Now take that with a grain of salt because I'm sure that there are many "nice" guys who do go to things like that and would gladly help a girl get home.

And yes, you probably have stories of a time when your girlfriend/friend/girl who was at your apartment was drunk and you didn't rape her. And you don't tell them because you don't think that's even a story. And it shouldn't be, but let me tell you: you should start telling them, because those 18-year-old boys who don't think they're bad guys sure aren't listening to us. Maybe they'll listen to you.

And here is another reason that so many of these boys don't view themselves as bad guys. They are just trying to do what most teenagers think they should do try and get some girl thingy. And unfortunately we (at least Americans) as a culture are too frightened to go against this belief because we are scared of talking about sex in general.. We do need to start telling boys that hey "no means no" and that it's wrong to take advantage of someone who is intoxicated. And I believe that responsibility belongs to the fathers of these boys who (as with most parents) don't seem to be doing a good enough job parenting.

Because men raping women is systemic, and cultural, and yes it is the patriarchy and it is misogyny and it is men thinking they are entitled to women's bodies. "Well, what did she expect, getting drunk like that?" isn't salt in the wound, it is the foundation of the problem. The idea that if a woman is not actively preventing a man from sticking his penis into her (and even then, if she's an enemy), he is doing nothing wrong, and hey, who can blame him, IS THE PROBLEM.

I agree 100% with you the mentality of most men today is that they need to be going after girl thingy 24/7 and they need to take every opportunity they can get.

I feel that a lot of the time this stupid crap extends to the internet as well. Whenever a user mentions they are a girl in chat, or corrects another user and says "Sky is a girl", there always seems to be a quick wave of "lol wut girls on the internet". And yeah, it was a little funny for a while, because I was honestly surprised people were shocked I was a girl or I was on the internet or whatever. But now it's simply old (running along the meme veins of LOL OVER 9000) and stupidly mysoginestic. I would bet damn near all I have that if it was a situation of "Sky is black/Asian/insert-nationality/race-here" and it became "lol black/Asians on the internet", mods would be TO-ing so fast there'd probably be a ban appeal thread for that issue alone.

Now the internet I would take as a grain of salt first of all because anonymity makes everyone an a**hole and second people often just spout bullshit for shock value. As far as lol wut girls on the internet goes believe it or not there was a time when the internet was dominated by a bunch of nerdy guys and that was more or less it. Nowadays the internet is being being more broadly used by everyone but the stereotype that there's no girls on the internet remains. It is very similar to video games in that most guys view it as a sort of nerdy thing that they wouldn't expect most girls to like. And I do have to say it kind of is (I mean c'mon who would expect most girls to watch a live stream of some guy screaming Barrel Roll while rolling a virtual bear down a hill).

All I'm really asking is for all people who read this to be more aware about this kind of shit. Don't say something to a woman you wouldn't want say in front of your mother or grandmother. If you see/hear or even read online that a girl is getting harassed simply for being a girl and no other reason, don't sit by and do nothing. If you are a male teenager/adult, don't let your little brother and his friends grow up thinking this kind of action is something that is okay, because it simply is not. Draw the line and set a proper example please, ladies and gentlemen.

I agree completely it seems that there are no gentlemen in this world and they will say whatever they like in front of a lady, which I think is absolutely disgusting. I think the reason we don't see men trying to set an example and be a gentlemen is that nowadays they are going to be called a girl thingy or a Homosxually orientated being who might enjoy penises more than woo woos just for trying to be a decent guy. We need to start educating these pricks who would try and demean someone who is trying to do the right thing. If we can accomplish that perhaps it may be a safer place for a lady to live in.

(Phew nice topic sky haven't posted anything like that in a while thanks for reviving the debate board.)

[Wednesday_R]

I was going to post in disagreement of one line, but I'm glad I scrolled back up to re-read the paragraph, because I misread it the first time.

I do have strong feelings about this, two close friends of mine have had this type of thing happen to them, and I like to think that in a few ways I can be "That Guy" in the sense of doing my part, or however the phrase went.

I've taken Shaolin Kenpo Karate for nine years now, and I've instructed/assisted in classes specifically designed around Womens' Self-Defense. Basically how to quickly shut someone's body down even when they're bigger and stronger than you are.

[skyliner12]

Jun 22, 2009 14:03:35 GMT -5 Darknezz said:

That's all well and good, but why is this in the debate forum?

It's not really a subject of debate that rape is wrong. Nor is it up to debate that everyone has rights, not just the rich white folks.

I put this in the debate forum because the debate forum is the only place in the forums where I consider topics to be treated with any amount of respect. I feel strongly about this subject, I'm not going to throw it into General Discussion and let trolls post "lol" as a response.

I'm not suggesting this is a debate. I'm suggesting that people need to sit down and take a damn hard look at how women are treated, in regards to any form of abuse. Sexual abuse, for whatever reason, is stupidly accepted in this culture. I want to know what other chatters and forum members think.

That aside, of course no one tells any stories about, "Oh this chick was over, drunk and passed out. I didn't rape her." First of all, that story is lame, no one cares, and quite frankly, it's never going to be relevant to conversation. A rapist won't be swayed by it, and people who don't rape people aren't going to rape people. I have a hard time imagining someone on the fence going, "Well, ya know, my friends said that they never raped anyone. But I could!"

And that is exactly why I made this topic. I want people to tell stories of how they were RESPONSIBLE and took the passed out girl HOME. Because that is the normal thing to do, that is the right thing to do. It's "lame, no one cares" because he didn't rape her? You can't listen to someone tell a story unless there's excess violence or rape in it?

No, a rapist won't be swayed by it. But if you have a 18 year old telling this story to another person, and a kid happens to hear it and realizes, "Oh, that's what you do in this situation". Or if that adult grows up and has kids, or if he's ever in a situation to give advice or guidance to someone who may be in the scene he was in? I don't care if it's a 1% chance, by telling the story that he did the right damn thing, there's a chance that someone will get it into their head that is what the SHOULD do.

This idea of setting a better example for people is silly. We set the best example possible, we educate kids in regard to the rights of every man, woman, and child, there's not a lot we can do. What, should we just bring them over to the news story and lecture them on how rape is bad every time it gets reported?

Setting a better example is silly? What the fuck? We should just set good examples and hope for the best? I can't even argue with this train of thought, it's simply ridiculous. Do you spend no time around children, or at least impressionable people?

No, I'm not suggesting we drag the kiddies in to the TV room every time the local news reports a woman has been raped. I'm suggesting that they hear it from an older, more mature person who was in a situation similar to the one they may ever run into where they made the right decision. See what I said before.

And for that matter, why is no one making redundant tirades like this on the topics of school shootings? On abortion? On any number of frankly more important issues? Because they don't work. The only reason for it is some emotional tie.

No one has any claim over another human. The rapists are the ones that need to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into this century. Unfortunately, that's unlikely to happen, especially when people are putting their efforts towards writing huge, pointless blocks of text like these, rather than actually doing something about it.

I can't control what people make debates about or not. This is a topic I have personal experience in, this is why I made it. I haven't been in a school shooting, and I haven't had an abortion. That doesn't mean I don't have an opinion about them, but I'm not as obliged to talk about them as I am about women being taken advantage of. It's not a matter of emotion, I care, but I am simply less experienced in those areas. I wouldn't create a debate thread to talk about how much better GM cars are versus Ford cars, it's not something I have great interest or knowledge in but I can talk about the subject.

Start telling construction workers who wolf-whistle at women who walk by that "no on has claim over another human". Like cereta said before, tell it to the women in the Congo who get raped over and over again, and in some areas they are considered lucky if it's by a male organ.

The reason I'm writing "huge, pointless blocks of text" is because I know this forum is full of guys. We have what, maybe five active female members? If one guy reads this and posts "I'm one of those guys who wouldn't do this", I'll be happy. If it's one guy who reads this and it makes him think twice before feeling a girl up, I'm happy. Fuck, if it's one less guy that reads this and thinks "Oh, hey, girls really don't want all that attention", I'm damned thrilled. As stupid as it sounds, I don't underestimate the power of the internet.

Racism and sexism have to be dealt with in the same manner. It's like stamping out a disease. You do it with a vaccine, one at a time, until it's cornered and you squash it. I don't have some delusion that by posting this thread I have conquered this corner of the internet and all people here are now tolerant and loving. I simply have the bliss of knowing how large the internet is and knowing that chance is on my side for someone to come across this and read it. And maybe a slimmer chance that they'll read it and care.

If nothing else, I've already seen one or two other responses to this thread that seem genuinely happy I've posted it, or at least interested, so I already feel accomplished.

[Darknezz]

"First of all, that story is lame, no one cares, and quite frankly, it's never going to be relevant to conversation." No, it's not lame. It's far from it. That sentence that you just typed up is just.. ugh. I can't believe you said that. And "people who don't rape people won't rape people"? I beg to differ. RAPE HAPPENS. Emotions and peer pressure can get people to do what they wouldn't do before. :/

Expect and receive.

I meant that a story of someone not raping a drunk chick is lame from the perspective that there's no reason to tell the story. At all. This idea that simply saying, "I never raped anyone" is going to make a difference to the people that have or will rape someone is absurd.

Of course rape happens. I'm not denying that. But the people that will never ever rape someone because they're actually decent human beings will gain nothing from your "rape is bad" rant. The people who are going to rape someone or already have will gain nothing from it because they're already too far gone. People don't change, not that much.

Darknezz for example is a jerk and will do anything in his power to put anyone down....Dark it should be here because some people don't know how serious rape is and it can be debated.

I won't put people down for no reason at all. I put people down when their opinions are stupidly formed out of ignorance and their ideas are trash, and I don't put them down, I put their ideas and opinions down.

As for the people who don't see that rape is serious, which I don't honestly believe is the case for anyone on these forums, they're just not educated. I suppose tirades like the above serve the purpose of educating these people, but they really should be given to those people, not posted on Facebook and the 4PP forums where they'll do no good.

Oh, and as for your other bit, simply disagreeing isn't a debate. A debate is a discussion where each side takes up and backs their position, a disagreement is when we state that we have different ideas and leave it at that.

[SnowOwl96]

There will always be cruel male asshats out there. Men, guys that see woman, girls as property, tools, sex objects ect... They think because they are strong, have booming voices and a well built nice body that they can do whatever they want and take what they want. Which should not be true. I've hit a few guys in the past because they thought it would be cool to pick on a girl, guess what? I fought back. As of 2 years ago I had a 60 year old man stalk me in the parking lot in front of the shop that I work at. I reported him to my manager(male, might I add) He made sure I was never bothered by the 60yr. old again. Last year, I threw a fit on here(some of you may recall) A clerk was shocked because he found out that I was a girl gamer and that my dad was buying fallout for me and another war game for christmas. Yes, guys are going to flip out when they read that a girl plays games and is chatting with them. I also had a few guys in chat freak out because they found out I was a girl. "Oh Em Gee, Solstice is a girl, owlie's a female?" Yeah, whoopty do and tyler too.
Is it stupid? Maybe... dumb, Yes! Some guys think and they have drilled in that damn head of theirs that ladies should be playing with dolls, spreading stupid rumours and cleaning house.. They are stuck in the olden days. Sorry boys things have changed.

As for rape, I am against it and I believe every male being that has raped...stolen a girl's virginity should be shot or locked away for life. Yes, I sound ridiculous, stupid... I don't care.
When has the word "no" ever meant "yes"?

1. A girl smiles when she says no can lead to mix dialogue and confusion. In which you would have to ask her what the heck she means.
b. If she says no and she's fading in and out.(wasted) That does NOT mean yes in any freaking way. To me guys that rape woman are worthless, desperate, cowardly, sick bastards...

There are some nice guys out there. You just have to keep an eye out for them.

I have to agree with Sky mostly on this. And Darknezz, you are right but then again I'm sure someone has tried to do something besides sitting at a computer complaining about this subject. The question(s) is how far did they go and are they still trying to fight this?

[hongryeon]

What about men being raped themselves? Women are more likely to be raped but it seems that men who go through the same thing have a harder way with dealing with it, because no-one takes it so seriously. If it's a man who forces a woman to have sex, they're a chauvinistic pig, right? If a woman took advantage of a man, or a man took advantage of a man, I wouldn't be surprised if it got blown off as a "drunk mistake" or the victim would be written off as just some lucky git making a big deal outta things. I'm not saying anyone on here shares that kinda view but I've met a lot of people who have.

I see TV adverts where women are giggling over a guy; watching him bend over in tight denim or stroll around with a unbuttoned shirt revealing a chest dripping in sweat. However, if it switched to the guys ogling a woman, it'd cause an uproar. Rape is bad no matter the sex of the victim, but the general attitude seems to have pretty much double-standards. The female victims get the special treatment while the male victims get pushed to the sidelines.

Of course, I agree with what you're saying, skyliner - though I guess sometimes it isn't as simple as just spreading the message that rape is bad.

[Deleted]

Jun 22, 2009 14:03:35 GMT -5 Darknezz said:

And for that matter, why is no one making redundant tirades like this on the topics of school shootings? On abortion? On any number of frankly more important issues?

I don't see how someone getting raped isn't as important as these things. While shooting and abortion include death, rape includes a phsycological torture for the person that lasts as long as they can remember that they were raped or sexually assaulted. Rape victims go though so much shit and it's just as important to discuss rape as it is anything else.

[shouhei]

Thank you, cecillia. You said everything that was supposed to be said in your last post. :] Great response.

Rape victims DO go through lots of shit.. after my friend got raped, her personality completely changed. She would only talk to me, and a few other people. She was crying constantly. Nobody should go through what she had to go through.

-Shou~

[SnowOwl96]

Well hong, that's another thing. Rape is a disgusting sad thing. Which you're pointing out is exactly the same thing as shou I believe said. It's about the appearance of the sex. People see guys to be muscular and well built. As for girls, we're not suppose to be strong and huge. Yes, girls check out guys and giggle. They call that flirting, don't get me wrong there is a line between flirtation and obsession. It's just sad when the one person who gets hurt ends up with nothing except a sick feeling in their stomach and perhaps little to no justice.

[Wednesday_R]

Jun 22, 2009 15:05:57 GMT -5 hongryeon said:

What about men being raped themselves? Women are more likely to be raped but it seems that men who go through the same thing have a harder way with dealing with it, because no-one takes it so seriously. If it's a man who forces a woman to have sex, they're a chauvinistic pig, right? If a woman took advantage of a man, or a man took advantage of a man, I wouldn't be surprised if it got blown off as a "drunk mistake" or the victim would be written off as just some lucky git making a big deal outta things. I'm not saying anyone on here shares that kinda view but I've met a lot of people who have.

I see TV adverts where women are giggling over a guy; watching him bend over in tight denim or stroll around with a unbuttoned shirt revealing a chest dripping in sweat. However, if it switched to the guys ogling a woman, it'd cause an uproar. Rape is bad no matter the sex of the victim, but the general attitude seems to have pretty much double-standards. The female victims get the special treatment while the male victims get pushed to the sidelines.

Of course, I agree with what you're saying, skyliner - though I guess sometimes it isn't as simple as just spreading the message that rape is bad.

Yeah, I know I would never last in jail. I've got a pretty mouth.