Labels-MATURE audiences only

[polaroidbear]

*PLEASE READ*: This is a MATURE discussion, something that chat lacks, lets use our adult logic and our inside voices, k?

So i told chat i would and here it is. A debate about labels such as "Emo" and "Goth".

Here's my view:
I used to be all of the above, I was very alone and very unhappy. That is not what i want to focus on tho, it's just the background on which my opinion is based.

We all know the stereotypical "goth", black clothes, makeup, and the scary music and environment. But few people actually think about them as anything other than what they look like. So they look different? so do you.

Emo is a definite style now, everyone knows it, they have their own music and clothing. But to be "emo" one should never admit to being it. To me and Emo person is sort of a goth who happens to have depressive tendencies.

Emo is supposed to mean "one whi is overly-emotional" but it is generally accepted as a depression.

People stop all too often and think of these people as less than human.. Theyre just different from you, it's just like any other style or fad out there. It's not what people look like that matters, it's what they do and who they are.

But there is a third genre that is the stereotype of this community, and that is the Emo or Goth people who basically broadcast themselves, ive met my fair share of them and would be lying if i said i hadnt done the same thing.

You (as im sure) know exactly what i mean by this. This is where one must draw the line im afraid. This(just like any other fad, mind you) is simply a means of exploiting a style for attention.

Kids are learning nowadays that it's cool and OK to cut oneself just to be accepted into a group. Depression is an illness, not a fad, and we have to explain that it's not something that is "cool" to deal with(and i say deal with because thats what you have to do, you have to deal with depression every day of your life until you can get better). Children are learning each day that it's alright to change yourself, even for the worse, as long as you are noticed.

We have to stop putting so much emphasis as a society on who and what we look like and listen to. If we begin to care more about who we are and how we act, we solve all of the problems, global tolerance will mean that no one has to submit themselves to a "style" solely for the sake of attention.

[Darknezz]

Society's going to label people no matter what. It's human nature. Our brains are literally supposed to categorize things and group them with other alike things.

I don't see any problem with labels at all.

I think what you're getting at is judging a book by its cover, which is an extension of ignorance, which is also inevitable in human nature.

Then you get to the point about people playing the stereotypes for attention. These people are unstoppable as well, as their need to be accepted is either rooted in an irrational fear of being hated by someone, or it's because they're generally not payed any attention at all, and must seek it by being obnoxious--whatever works.

Global tolerance will never be achieved, and those who strive for the perfect society are nothing short of fools. People are going to hate other people for one reason or another. A girlfriend, a job, anything that breeds competition will always be part of society, and competition breeds contempt.

[shortbus]

I've gotten to know a few of these emo kids, and they aren't even depressed/(negatively)emotional. They never even have a shitty life, in my experience. Usually they're rich, spoiled kids, and the girl emo kids are usually giddy, happy, and loud/obnoxious. They seem to be overly (positive) emotional. EDIT: They do cut themselves though;lightly, to get attention.

I actually hung with the gangster kids in 7th grade because I was rejected by the snobby preps; I never did the baggy pants or doing drugs part of their culture though.


I'm in an unusual group for my school currently, the liberal democrat group, but that's a different story.

[shilohdegreat]

I still think that the label "emo" is dumb as hell. If music is something meaningful to you, and you consider yourself an artist, how can it not be emotional? How can anything you dedicate yourself to [/i]not be emotional? And to label a genre after that? It's just stupid. You might as well label a genre "tempo" or "beat".

I was never really alone or unhappy, but I was the kid who wore the tight pants in 7th grade, way before it started catching on with my peers. I got shit for it a lot, and got called gay, based only on what I wore. So, in regards to that, I'm fine with labeling, I just disagree with stereotypes.

But being ostracized does help in growth individuality.

I actually have more to say on this topic, but I don't want to turn this into a harangue. It'd be based off of personal experience, but this topic isn't about this. I don't really want to talk about high school cliques and that vanity.

[pennz0il]

If you're seriously still worried about arguments like this, you're probably still in high school.

I'm not saying, I'm just saying....

But bringing even more attention to it just fuels the stupidity.
Idk idk idk idk.

[polaroidbear]

Penn i am in high school (for one more month)

But I didnt ask this because i wanted to discuss why people shouldnt label me as whatever, i just want to start a debate on the issue that wont end in "EM0z R ghey! lawlolulz" (which is why i left chat ^_^)

I think an open mature discussion will eventually lead to some semblance of greater peace, maybe not world tolerance, but one can admit we are far from that atm.

[shilohdegreat]

May 6, 2009 11:11:24 GMT -5 polaroidbear said:

Penn i am in high school (for one more month)

But I didnt ask this because i wanted to discuss why people shouldnt label me as whatever, i just want to start a debate on the issue that wont end in "EM0z R ghey! lawlolulz" (which is why i left chat ^_^)

I think an open mature discussion will eventually lead to some semblance of greater peace, maybe not world tolerance, but one can admit we are far from that atm.

People are intolerant, and high school students are ubiquitously immature. Just wait a few years, the douchebaggery will eventually go away. Hopefully. By the time you're out of high school, you won't deal with it anymore, so don't worry about it.

[polaroidbear]

no! no youre not getting what im saying!

haha this is what i didnt want, for people to think i was complaining about my life or whatever, this doesnt happen to me! im a passive observer! and this question was raised in chat, not at my school.'

Haha im secure with who i am and look forward to more intelligent conversations with people in the future, thats not what this is about tho. You kinda hdad to be in cha yesterday to know what i mean

[Xalgar]

The goth kids at my school were actually a cool bunch of people. They all had a positive outlook on life, they just wanted to be different. But back to your discussion.

As Darknezz said, Humans are always intolerant as a species, it's impossible not to be. People who strive for global tolerance are intolerant to those who are intolerant.

The most extreme form of intolerance and stereotyping occurs on a children's playground.

I'm very intolerant to gangster kids because I hate how most of them don't apply themselves, don't try to make any community a better place, and they are usually not a smart bunch of people. Sure, there's about a 1/50 chance that at my school, (Which is about 85% gangster kids) you'll run into a gangster kid who actually tries to graduate instead of blaming teachers or the system.

My intolerance is very accurate though and I have a good reason not to like this group, because all I see is a bunch of weed smoking failures, with the rare exception of someone who just like to dress, talk, and listen to the music in that culture, but not fit a stereotypical attitude (which is how things should be).

What I'm trying to say is a bit confusing and contradictive. But this is kind of how I see things, there are so many that fit a stereotype that I can label them, but you have the individual somewhere in that crowd.

Then again, I do live in California where everyone strives to fit a certain *group* and anyone who doesn't looks and acts very strangely. They are like a mass flock of sheep who follow what is popular on T.V. with the occasional black sheep who wants to be a sheep, but wants to be a different color/

[fuzzy09]

Following on from last night in chat, I said I'd post here today <3 This is sort of a mix of various points, and I'd be happy to expand on any point should someone ask.

I as well agree with the points Darknezz made, global tolerance will never be created, more an ideal, an illusion that will be held by some.

People will always have opinions, that cannot be stopped. Whilst these opinions can shift or change, you'll generally find between a group of friends, people share the same influences, and opinions as one another, or will perhaps be influenced by their peers to do so. For example, this is a group of friends who once perhaps liked rap, meet someone who likes rock, and their beliefs, and culture start to shift, and are possibly influenced by the new arrival. In the same way, the new arrival may be influenced to like rap, because he believes the people he has experienced in that sub culture are cool. The same works for beliefs I feel.

Like Xalgar, I'm very intolerant to gangster kids. I feel that they try and fit the stereotype, and play up in front of the class to make themselves seem cool in front of friends. A true friend would accept you no matter how you act however, so I believe a lot of the gangster culture to be fake, hence my annoyance at the arrogance of some that cultures/groups beliefs. I do find that whilst a lot of people do use stereotypes, (me included on first appearances only) it is more from personal experience then word of mouth that influences this. However I believe a lot of people realise this is the case, but choose to apply the stereotype, to either look cool within their group, or to be a sheep and are accepted by their peers, or whatever reason they have.

My personal opinion of goth and emo people does not fit the stereotype given to them. I myself am neither of these cultures, although I am influenced by both in certain ways, as I have some emo and goth friends. The emo friends I have are not depressed, rather bubbly and exciting, and the goths do not dress in black or look scary. If you go by the emo stereotype, it could be said the clothes my friends wear suggest they're emo (I don't like saying that though, I'm usually not one to judge until I've spoken to the person, although first impressions are always made from one persons look, or style), and thus some people who may meet them, or walk past them may call them emo, in a derogatory sense. This annoys me greatly, but just goes to highlight the ignorance of people, and their quickness to judge.

I believe it is far too idealist to imagine a world with no stereotypes or one with global tolerance, or a world where people will judge after they've had a lengthy, mature discussion with someone. People obviously have their reasons for judging straight away and keeping that belief, although I feel none are acceptable. Society will always put an emphasis on what we look like, or what we listen to because it is what most of society has been pre-conditioned to accept, hence why it has became the norm and been accepted by the majority of society. Whilst I would like a world with tolerance, and no stereotypes, I know unless the majority of the worlds view is changed, this cannot happen. This would also have to happen over a few generations, and new parents would have to teach their children to be tolerant, and not judge others straight away. Unfortunately, there are not enough people believing this, for this to become a reality I feel.

[Wednesday_R]

May 6, 2009 14:43:28 GMT -5 polaroidbear said:

no! no youre not getting what im saying!

haha this is what i didnt want, for people to think i was complaining about my life or whatever, this doesnt happen to me! im a passive observer! and this question was raised in chat, not at my school.'

Haha im secure with who i am and look forward to more intelligent conversations with people in the future, thats not what this is about tho. You kinda hdad to be in cha yesterday to know what i mean

I think all the answers you've gotten so far are pretty valid, though.
Maybe you should have kept this in chat, since its too complicated for us forum kids to grasp?

On subject:
For the latter half of my high school years, I was never really part of any clique, I was the guy that would hang out at ten different lunch tables before the bell rang.

While I do have a "unique" (one may say darkly inclined) way of dressing, its simply personal taste; I'm eccentric. I like to think (and I've been told) that my 'style' is unclassifiable.

As for these kids who limit themselves to their little color-coded clothes-and-music acceptance groups: they are idiots (or at the very least, weak-willed).

[shikacaah]

To be truthful I am intolerant of the majority of individuals who choose to label theirselves anything.

It shows they lack the conviction to see theirselves as individuals in addition to their downright tendency to be manipulated.

However I am not saying I am any better than them, I wear clothes others do and I listen to music others do, but the key fundamental difference being noone influenced me to do so, though it is likely I was subconsciously influenced somehow.

The point is however, society can do whatever it likes, and those individuals who choose to be lemmings and follow can do what they like as well. It is their lack of a functional mind, and weak willpower that compels them to do so.

People need to stop blaming things on influences around them and realize everyone is responsible for their own actions, just like there were those Nazis in the Holocaust that performed so many atrocities upon human beings. There was those few who refused.

Point is, individuals must learn that they must be that very thing, an individual. Influences are everywhere, it is up to them to listen and be manipulated.

[revrevs]

I never liked emos (Thankfully I rarely see them). They act just so silly. Bear in mind i'm saying act as in this is what I see not what I know. They act sad yet they have enough money to buy expsensive clothing and make-up and they have more friends than anybody! What makes things worse is that there are people who have horrible lives and take hardship in stride while "middle class Jimmy" just had a break-up with his girl friend so he decides to steal his sisters clothes in order to "rebel with his emotions". I'm sorry but if you're a guy and you wear girl's pants to be emo then you're not really getting any message across to everyone else and that person is probubly having an identity crisis.

But hey kids will be kids they can be impressionable. Now what doesn't make sense is how they grow up still being emo.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong about any of this because I honestly can't respect a person who has to act like a spoiled brat crying about their very insignificant life issues. To me it's not an issue of difference I understand what I'm seeing, maybe it's the emos that need to notice how self centered they act.

I'm not a person who labels others because I believe there is more than meets the eye, but I can see how emo is a negative label. Now I want to know how emos didn't expect this?

[dafishies]

I'd like to just say a couple things.

Kids think its cool to do these drugs and everything to get "shitfaced" or "fucked up" I know of at least 15 people in my school who do this. I of course don't do drugs or drink alcohol or any of that junk. It's just not who I was raised to be and not who i WANT to be.

Personally, I hate "skater kids" because they are so stupid, immature and just rediculously weird. I mean mostly because I don't see the point in wearing skinny girls pants. To me their just transvestites. I happen to work at mcdonald's at the moment and I do hate my job. and everytime I take a "skater kids" order, they either A.) try to be funny and hold up the whole line which just makes it harder for me and makes me want to punch them in the face. B.) Order 20 different things, when they have 3 dollars and make me get rid of everything even though its already made and they KNEW they had only 3 dollars. or C.)Get a whole bunch of custom orders that don't make any sense, and then when i give them their food say its made wrong even though its what they told me.

thats my opinion........