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Post by Darknezz on Apr 18, 2009 23:19:51 GMT -5
If I enjoy games equally with no thought given to their genre, be it RTS or FPS, TPS or Pungeon Crawler, if the genre doesn't matter, why am I not allowed to compare titles across genres?
During the holidays, I hear a lot of people fighting about "what game is better," and then others saying that you can't compare Legend of Zelda to Gears of War because they're just too different.
But that's why we have reviews! To compare games to your other choices! Zelda is a puzzle-filled dungeon crawling game, where as Gears is basically "lolsprintandkilleverythinglololololol." But what makes it so that I can't compare the two?
If I'm just judging them on the key qualities of each game, why is it that it's unfair simply because one wins?
Can someone explain it to me?
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Post by Mordiford on Apr 19, 2009 0:19:45 GMT -5
Basically Darknezz, the idea is that different genres appeal to different people. When comparing games that are so vastly different it is easy to get called out, in your example you put out Legend of Zelda and Gears of War.
Say for example you like shooters better, you can't really compare the two games because you'll naturally be leaning towards Gears as it is a shooter. When you compare two games of the same genre that doesn't come in to play.
The way I feel about reviews is that when reviewing a game, you should review it based on it's merit in it's particular genre. You can compare two games as being the best in their given genre and you can compare particular traits of different games in different genres (Voice acting, Graphics, Music) but you can't compare two vastly different games as a whole because the kind of genre you like will create a bias.
Now, in this sense I'm saying that it's not alright to say "Legend of Zelda is better than Gears of War" or vice versa but it's different to say "I enjoyed Legend of Zelda more than Gears of War". I almost always use the latter statement, but even in doing so it isn't advisable to compare the two since it can quite easily be assumed that I like the genre that Zelda falls under. With so many factors distorting peoples views and comparisons of games, "Genre Bias" is just a stupid thing to dump on top of it all.
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Post by Darknezz on Apr 19, 2009 0:24:58 GMT -5
But Mord, again, when I take genre out of the equation, because I like or dislike both equally, or by some other means, why is it still an issue?
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Post by daikenjo on Apr 19, 2009 7:29:10 GMT -5
of course you can compare two games in different genres, nothing should stop you from doing it.
but in the end, even when you're comparing key qualities and objectively stating that one game is better than another across genres, people who like the other game will always call foul and call it genre-bashing. just the way it is i guess. it'll always provoke someone.
i guess because when people generally cross genres when comparing games, in the bigger picture, they're actually comparing the actual genres more than what makes the individual game special.
when people compare games, they want to compare them to others in their genre because usually people want to know how it compares to other great games that are similar and where it stands among them. if they introduce a game in a genre they don't care about and start comparing, they wouldn't understand, or question its relevance.
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octanehugo
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Post by octanehugo on Apr 19, 2009 8:45:55 GMT -5
If you're comparing difference enough games, like LoZ and GoW, you should focus on the technical aspects and the actual gameplay; how does LoZ do as a fantasy RPG, and how does GoW do as a shooter. Then, you could come out with something like "LoZ is one of the best of its kind" and "GoW is an average shooter".
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Post by school on Apr 19, 2009 13:06:11 GMT -5
Comparison across genres can't work because of the elements in a game change with a change in genre. You can't just take genre out of the equation, if you do, it fails to compute. Sure there are things like "I think this game is fun" that can be applied across genres but that is hardly a comparison.
Also, with your comment about reviews, you don't really explain how that makes it comparable.
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Post by Darknezz on Apr 19, 2009 17:09:49 GMT -5
Comparison across genres can't work because of the elements in a game change with a change in genre. You can't just take genre out of the equation, if you do, it fails to compute. Sure there are things like "I think this game is fun" that can be applied across genres but that is hardly a comparison. Also, with your comment about reviews, you don't really explain how that makes it comparable. Okay, given that gameplay changes across genres, why does it fail to compute? You jumped from one to the other. Like I said before, we're taking out genre because it no longer matters, because either we dislike or like both genres equally, or we're simply comparing review scores. That's what I was getting at with reviews. As untrustworthy as so many reviewers are, especially ones like Gamespot and IGN, there has to be one or two that are legit. So, we find a legit review for both games, compare the scores they got, and say which one is better. Of course, that also brings genre back into the equation based on who reviewed it, so forget I said anything about reviews. To objectively define what is a better game, we look at the aspects of each game in their own genre, not simply look at them as games. To stay with the example, Legend of Zelda has a vast, open-world with tons to do, which is a staple of its genre, while Gears of War is linear. Neither of these should count for their respective games, because it's the typical set up for those genres. But if Legend of Zelda were linear, we'd count it against, because that is not what a game of that genre should be. So, given the above, why is it such an acceptable response to discount someone's opinion simply because the games are vastly different? |
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Post by deadlyelite on Apr 19, 2009 19:08:51 GMT -5
i think sometimes you can, but in some cases you cant like: i like driving in cars which is why i like forza over say halo as forza is a racing game and halo has a little driving in it
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Post by Darknezz on Apr 19, 2009 20:56:36 GMT -5
Deadlyelite, you missed the point entirely. Reread the topic, try to figure it out.
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ceby
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Post by ceby on Apr 20, 2009 13:23:20 GMT -5
To simplify things I think comparing games of different genre's are like comparing apples and oranges to put it bluntly. When you pick up a you generally know what you are going to get. A linear experience with a lot of action, weapons, and maybe some vehicular combat.
When you pick up a dungeon crawler adventure game you expect their to be a wide open expanse with side quests and and a non linear experience.
Different genres offer a player different things. This is why you can't compare the two equally. To go back to apples and oranges you can't say that apples are better cause they are crisper and you don't have to peel them. They offer you two completely different experiences.
However on that note you can judge games of different genres based on their technical aspects such as the amount of bugs and overall polish. Again with the metaphor a ripe orange is clearly better then a moldy apple.
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Post by Wednesday_R on Apr 20, 2009 14:21:28 GMT -5
in b4 Darknezz's "YEAH BUT..."
Based on what you're saying, simplified further, games shouldn't be reviewed or exposed to any opinion at all, due to peoples' personal tastes.
Oh God don't hurt their feelings, be an equal opportunity gamer. D:
I have opinions on genres as a whole, just like everyone else does, its a human indulgence.
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octanehugo
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Post by octanehugo on Apr 20, 2009 14:52:17 GMT -5
Guys, all he's pointing out is that saying "You can't compare games from different genres" is a stupid statement because YOU CAN.
If I were to compare Mario Kart and Killzone 2, I can examine not only the way they run and the technical aspects but also how they perform as a type of game: racing and shooter, respectively.
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Post by Darknezz on Apr 20, 2009 17:25:12 GMT -5
in b4 Darknezz's "YEAH BUT..." Based on what you're saying, simplified further, games shouldn't be reviewed or exposed to any opinion at all, due to peoples' personal tastes. Oh God don't hurt their feelings, be an equal opportunity gamer. D: I have opinions on genres as a whole, just like everyone else does, its a human indulgence. No, you missed my point entirely. Oneacthugo summed it up pretty nicely. |
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Post by izekiarage on Apr 20, 2009 18:39:57 GMT -5
I dont see why you can't either, I usually compare games in terms of the story and stuff. I am a big MP player but I'll take a story driven game over a MP game if i can only afford one of the two.
When you go into a store looking for something new but don't know what you want and find two games of two different genres and you cant afford both, guess what happens? We drop the genre crap and start comparing the two. I know I do at least.
When you want to buy apples and oranges but you can only afford one you end up comparing them anyways.
So saying you can't compare games across different genres is a pile of crap.
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Post by Wednesday_R on Apr 20, 2009 19:27:02 GMT -5
I didn't miss your point (or lack thereof), I was referencing what you'd said in regard to personal taste.
I fail to see any reason why anyone would even think of, let alone ask this question.
I mean, I'm not trying to be an ass.
But seriously, were you playing Super Mario Brothers and it occurred to you, "Wow this game isn't anything like Mirror's Edge!"
When comparing something to point out its faults and strengths, its common sense, natural even, to compare it to something similar.
If you don't, people wont know what the Hell you're talking about,and you'll throw them off entirely.
I'm not sure if you're just going for a nonconformist freedom fight (I.E. "I do this just because you think I can't!") or something, which I've seen you do on here more than once, because I fail to see any logic to what you're saying...
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