On the Topic of Love

[Oreo]

Is it wrong to love someone for merely sexual appeal? If it is, why is that wrong? If it isn't, what keeps up a relationship like that? Or do they even stick? Was talking/thinking about this last night and I want more opinions.

We all know men are attracted to beautiful women. . .but is that just a fantasy world they would enjoy, or do they honestly want a woman who doesn't love and understands them, but will simply have sex with them?

Do women only love beefed up muscle men? Women typically are more emotional toward love and family-oriented behavors. . . so would they be more susceptible to "true love" than sex appeal?

I have seen many friends in many relationships. . . some I can understand, but many I can not. Why do two seemingly uncommon people end up together? Do their differences in personalities and traits bring them closer together? Are they attracted by sex? Do they honestly care for one another?

Maybe this doesn't belong in the debate forum, but I have to know.

Is Love all about sex appeal? And don't answer like you know it should be answered. Answer how you feel. Would you even date someone that you didn't find physically attractive? Tell me the qualities you need in a partner. Just talk so I can find some answers. Please be serious, also.

[emiemipoemi]

I believe that love is based on hormones. So therefore, having a relationship based on sex is normal. However, I also believe a large part of what we are attracted to is conditioned by society. We are designed by nature to find ample assets attractive. A man is supposed to look for wide hips, large breasts, clear skin, and other indications of fertility and good mating stock. Now, in some senses, that has remained intact. However, the fashionable ideal of beauty these days is a woman with a distinctly childlike appearance. We favor women with no development, that have skinny androgynous forms. Their wide eyes and lips are supposed to suggest juvenile innocence. This seems to be a sharp contrast to our instinctual drive. Interestingly, it's these slender idols that women tend to favor over men. True, men are becoming more and more conditioned to muscular thin women (that still display a certain curve ratio). But the models for women's fashion magazines are a far cry from the superficially voluptuous ones populating men's publications. I've always found it ironic that magazines for women are filled with - women! But specifically, women that tend to appear like little boys. And interestingly enough, women now find men attractive that display feminine characters. For instance, the clear skin, big eyes, formed lips, etc. There's a lot of contradictions inherent there.

Women are designed to look for men with bulging muscles that suggest the ability to protect and provide, with clear indications of healthy skin and good genes. Men are designed to look for women with slender waists, big hips, and big boobs. Does everyone necessarily feel this way? I personally think bulging muscles are a bit gross. My nature might be to seek them out, but I also am a being with free will and a psychological development that causes me to seek out other factors. That's not necessarily a perversion of nature. That's individual preference. But from the massive sociological standpoint, I think what societies deems attractive reveals a good deal about them.

I think it's also important to note how powerful the male sex drive is. Relationships have been ruined because the male's sex drive overshadows the female's sex drive, which creates the "He is constantly bothering me for sex" and "She never has sex with me anymore." One of a male's main objectives in life is he wants to have sex. Right now. So, if he finds a partner that satiates that objective, he's probably going to hang to her for a while.

This has a lot to do with the question "why do skanks always have boyfriends?" They have boyfriends because they are skanks! Guys sometimes ask "why do these girls always date jerks?" Well think about it. A male dating a skank is probably not after her personality.

Is love (and we're talking about bf/gf, bf/bf, gf/gf love, not platonic. That's a whole different thing.) all about sex appeal? No, but I think it's a BIG part of it. Would I date somebody I didn't find attractive? No, but I can bet my opinions on what is attractive are a hell of a lot different than yours.

[hyacinthex]

Mm. I kind of go both ways on this one. I don't believe relationships can survive without a healthy sex life. I've seen situations like Emi mentioned where the guy wanted more sex than a girl was able to provide, but this particular guy was also a sexual deviant asshole. This also brings up the fact that sex appeal is not only physical, but mental as well. If you feel uncomfortable/oppressed/submissively obligated to someone both personally and sexually, chances are that although you might still be physically attracted to them, your desire to have sex with them will gradually (or not so gradually, sometimes) diminish. Which, in turn, can lead to the dominating partner to become resentful that you don't want to have sex with them, causing them to become more hostile about sex in general, and thus starting an entire unhealthy cycle of guilt.

BUT I have also seen the opposite end of the spectrum where a guy who was extremely self-concious (and smoked too much pot) so he claimed his sex drive was completely shot, which frustrated the hell out of his girlfriend of 2 years. Either way, not having a healthy sex life with your partner leads to hurt feelings/self-esteem issues and, ultimately, resentment. I feel that if you're not sexually attracted to the person with whom you're in a relationship, you need to not be with that person -- period. (That is, in a what would be sexually active relationship and not a mutually agreed upon "no sex" relationship.) I was actually talking about this earlier today with my roommates. I know someone who is having difficulties with their marriage because the couple hasn't had sex in a year, yet they just got married this past December. And the guy ended up telling the girl that part of the reason why they weren't having sex was because of her weight. Now, admittedly, this girl is rather broadly built and does have some extra pounds, but her weight has fluctuated very little since they started dating and he's known how she's looked for over 3 years PRIOR to their marriage. From my standpoint, if this were such a problem, he shouldn't have married her, because now she is going through severe self-esteem issues thanks to her husband telling her, basically, that she's too fat for him to want to have sex with her.

At the same time, though .. I also don't think a relationship can last solely on sex. It can be fun for a while, but at the end of the day, week, month, year, whatever-long fling, these two people are eventually going to realize that they have nothing in common/like nothing about each other except their sex life. And this may or may not be enough, but even if it is, it will only be enough UNTIL one of them finds somebody else who actually intrigues them on something more than just a physical level.

I also try to keep in mind that -- and excuse my pessimism here -- nobody actually knows exactly what they want. It has been my experience that relationships, even those that are passionate and healthy, can easily be tossed aside -- and it's usually for someone else's sex appeal. I have seen people leave amazing relationships for aforementioned skanks and manwhores just to have these sex-filled flings, and as soon as the fling is over, the person who left the relationship is suddenly regretful for throwing away the good thing they had. At the same time, I've seen people be in miserable relationships where sex is not even present and the couple is solely together for convenience (shared house, rent, cars, etc.), yet when someone comes along that one of these people actually connects with on both a physical and emotional level, the person in the relationship is too scared of change and thus stays in their miserable state, letting what might be a golden opportunity to pass by.

Sex appeal is a double-edged sword. For me, it's one of those things that can easily, and quickly, make or break a partnership. It's probably my #3 in the Top 5 Things I Look For in a Partner (lmfao), the top 2 being honesty and an even temperment, and the last 2 being self-respect and a sense of humor. I also think that people get into relationships to make themselves "whole" or be "fulfilled/completed" by another person, and excuse some -more- of my pessimism, but I don't think it works that way. I believe that a relationship is only going to work if both people are complete people on their OWN, as individuals, and thus aren't depending on each other in a very co-depedent manner to keep each other happy. Make yourself happy/be happy with who YOU are, find a person who is happy with who THEY are, and then a mutual happiness can be achieved together without using one another as a crutch.

Yay.
/end rant
xD

[Oreo]

Thank you Hya, for a very insightful and long post.

Here is my question to you.

When you decide that you "like" someone, is it because they are even tempered and have a good sense of humor, or does it start right at sex appeal?

I guess this is the question that burns me. I think so many people start right with sex appeal, and thus leading to a purely physical relationship. Of course, I like your point that though they may both just be in it for the sex, it will eventually die.

So then how do they feel about that? Could you live with yourself if that happened to you?

How do you mend a broken heart and find out what happened with the relationship that you thought was going so perfectly just a week ago, but is now being torn to shreds over such a natural thing as sex?

I've posted this question in another forum and gotten some pretty interesting answers, but I would still like to read what some others have to say. I need more insight, because the question that I really want to answer, I cannot word correctly. I am hoping someone will accidentally stumble into the answer I am looking for.

[Wednesday_R]

I've always known and been told that I'm an odd guy out in that I prefer to spend my time with a girl that can make me laugh rather than a girl I just want to fuck.
But I break up with more girls than Jerry Seinfeld, so what do I know.

Edit after reading the above post:
I think you're right that it starts with sex appeal.
If a girl walks by and makes my head turn, I'm more likely to talk to her than if a less knockout-esque did (not to say that I wouldn't talk to both of them).

But in my case, at least, it has to go from there.
If I can't connect to her, I wont be around her, regardless of whether she is super beautiful or not.

[hyacinthex]

I think an initial physical attraction is necessary, if that's what you're asking about how I know I like someone. It may be shallow, but I believe people literally need to "catch one's eye" so to speak to even be given the opportunity of making their way to starting a relationship. For instance, say you're at a bar/restaurant/bookstore/Wal-Mart/wtfever, and a guy starts hitting on you, you're probably not going to want to stick around for very long if you don't find him attractive.

At the same time, though, I've been in situations where I didn't initially find a guy attractive, but through time spent together, intellectual conversation, funny stories, etc., I've found that people -can- in fact grow on you. It's just a matter of whether or not you're the type of person where the emotional attraction can enhance the physical attraction.

As far as relationships dissipating out of the blue because of sex .. It happens, especially at our age. Sex is more important to us than it is to, say, 30-40 year-olds. Now what's heartbreaking is if you start feeling/discover that the only reason the person you've been with for however long has only been with you FOR sex -- actually USING you -- then it's time to cut your losses, remove the person from your life and deal with the pain in your own way.

I don't know if I'm even coming close to what you're trying to get at, but. I've been in said situation, and it's not fun.

[Oreo]

Feb 13, 2009 16:51:23 GMT -5 hyacinthex said:

It's just a matter of whether or not you're the type of person where the emotional attraction can enhance the physical attraction.

This.

This is what I am looking for. I don't think my relationships have anything to do with physical attraction, because emotional and mental attraction is enhancing my "physical" attraction.

I think that's it. I'm not sure, though.

Feel free to continue talking.

[Dellago]

Love...like destiny...is a fickle B*tch.

Nah I'm just joshing, love is awwwwwwright.

[Oreo]

Feb 13, 2009 17:15:16 GMT -5 Dellago said:

Love...like destiny...is a fickle B*tch.

Nah I'm just joshing, love is awwwwwwright.

I am looking for serious posts, please. If you have more to say, please edit your post for me, because I would like to hear it.

[SnowOwl96]

I find love to be somewhat complicated. I haven't really met anyone that I can say I've truly fallen for.
You girls have said a lot on this subject basically from experience.

I used to have people come up to me whether they were friends or not and ask me about bf/gf relationships and the funny thing about that is I've never been in one. I used to have friends come up and ask me what to do. For some reason to them I was an open book on love and relationships. Which to me never made sense.

For instance my friend Cici when we were in 11 grade she was tangled up with two college guys. One of them said he couldn't live without her and would commit suicide if she ever left him. I remember she would call me and send me e-mails and ask for my help because she was scared. She wanted to be with the other guy but she didn't want to feel guilty because some guy killed himself over her. She never told me what she did to get out of that situation.

There were others that wanted to dump the person they were dating. As some of you have said they dump them for someone who is better looking or because they have an accent or some thing that the last person they were with didn't have.

For me, I want to be with someone not just for looks but for their personality as well. They don't have to be wealthy rich. They can be poor, good looking and have a wonderful personality. I don't like the guys that are on steroids with huge biceps. Its just a turn off for me.

[chocothunda]

Interesting post here. There are two points in this thread that I want to talk about, since I can kind of relate to them in a sense.

Feb 14, 2009 1:07:41 GMT -5 SnowOwl96 said:

I used to have people come up to me whether they were friends or not and ask me about bf/gf relationships and the funny thing about that is I've never been in one. I used to have friends come up and ask me what to do. For some reason to them I was an open book on love and relationships. Which to me never made sense.

I have this EXACT same issue, here. You experience a lot of interesting things when you're single; this particular phenomenon is one of them. In my case, there have been at least three girls (all three are friends of mine) that I know of that have asked for relationship advice. This advice that I give them is actually before they are in a relationship, not while they are in them. Some time after I give this advice (they may follow it or not), they are in their own particular relationships.

Here's the twist: All three of these girls are girls that I liked.

Feb 13, 2009 16:56:41 GMT -5 Oreo said:

This is what I am looking for. I don't think my relationships have anything to do with physical attraction, because emotional and mental attraction is enhancing my "physical" attraction.

This is a little bit more difficult for me to comment on, so I'll do my best to talk about it based on my experiences. According to the women that I know, I have very good qualities about me that would make me a good boyfriend. I don't mean this in a bragging sort of sense, but since I can genuinely listen to what some women have to say, I'm sensitive to some of their feelings and since I'm generally a nice person, that ups my "boyfriend material" stat up considerably. I found this out by listening in on my female friend's "girl-talk" while playing a card game with a few other friends.

One of my friends that was engaged in said "girl-talk" was single at that particular time; long story short, the thing that I had with her, is something that...I wouldn't consider a relationship now, but others WOULD. Here's why: both me and my friend were very friendly with each other; 'friendly' in that we held hands, hugged, talked a lot about stuff, hung out for long hours, did some innocent fooling around (nothing sexual), basically, things that most couples WOULD be doing. After a short while, I noticed that nothing was really and truly advancing, in that, nothing romantic was going on, so I confronted her about it alone.

She told me that, in general, I would make a good boyfriend (this is where that emotional and mental attraction comes in, IMO). As far as the two of us going out, however, she couldn't see it happening. While I understood this (and it hurt like hell), I would like to say that the activities that we were doing was REALLY BLOODY CONFUSING! While I can understand her being comfortable with me at the time, the activities that we did--that most couples would do--threw me off completely.

To tie this in to the thread, I'll say this: I liked her based on her personality (honestly) and for how she looked and felt. She just had an interesting spirit about her and I liked being around her and and being physically friendly with her. In my opinion, I believe she felt the same, but not up to that level of romantic intimacy; more like really good friend intimacy (Yay for Friend Zone T_T). In a more general sense, I like being around women whom I can get along with, personality wise. I also like women that have a particular look about them; something that makes me look at em briefly, and then quickly look away in embarrasment. This goes in both directions of "DAMN, she fine!" to "Aww, she's cute!"

I think SnowOwl hit it on the head when saying that love is a complicated thing; to make it even MORE complicated, I will leave this question: What if there is someone that you like/love that is of a different race than you are? I'm gonna leave this open as some may/may not have been in this particular situation.

(In regards to that last question, I'm asking this as an African-American male, whom has had at least one crush on women of every color.)

My apologies if this post was a bit...erm...confusing.

[kakihara]

In terms of logic, this entire conundrum boils down to your own personal feelings and values. If you like/love someone for their appearance/physical features, that's the person you are and no amount of therapy or strong willpower will change that. If you're into more emotional/social/intellectual characteristics, that is also acceptable. There is no one defining rule that says, "All men only like pretty women."; or, "All women only like hot men." It's solely based upon the individuals' true personality, and wants and needs.

That being said, I think I can estimate a natural trend within this problem:
Men who have high sex drives generally want a physically attractive woman.
Women who have high sex drives generally want either a physically attractive man or commitment.
Men and women who's sex drives are not crazy wild usually focus more on other spectrum's of the human, such as emotional, social, etc.
Granted this is all just my opinion, not a general fact.